| QUESTION: Old Covenant idioms may very well be a valid issue
to explore in gaining more accurate insight into what Jesus was saying in
Matthew 24. I think we all rather have scripture interpret itself. That
is difficult at times because sometimes Jesus is talking literally, metaphorically,
symbolically... so on and so forth. I’m sure you get the picture.
You used the scripture in Psalms 104:3 to show that the clouds of Matthew 24 should not be taken as literal clouds. At the end of the scriptures you related you said, “None of this is speaking literally about God actually being seen travelling on clouds, nor literally seen dwelling in them. The clouds are glory clouds in which He dwells. But you would never see Him in them.” In the General Discussion posting on The Apocalypse / The Coming – My Thoughts, I addressed that very issue about Jesus coming in the clouds. Acts 1: 9-11 – And having said these, and as they look, He is lifted; and a cloud takes Him from their eyes. And as they stare into the heavens as He goes, behold, two men stand by them in white apparel; why stand you looking into the heavens? This same Yah Shua taken from you into the heavens comes thus in like manner as you observed Him go into the heavens. It seems to me that this scripture in itself contradicts your
conclusion that God is not seen travelling on clouds and that we would
never see Him in them. The disciples saw Him lifted up and taken from them
in a cloud. Is there any question that this cloud was the same type of clouds
that we see in the heavens in this present day now? I don’t believe this
passage is metaphorical or symbolic in any sense. He was lifted up and a cloud
took Him from their sight. This passage makes the most sense when taken literally.
If you He wasn’t taken up in a cloud Now, not only that, the angels qualify this scene by saying that the same way they saw Jesus taken into the heavens, so also, He will return in like manner. Which means that all the reports describing Jesus descending from the heavens are describing literal clouds, full of His glory. Jesus is coming in a cloud or clouds, with dynamis and with vast glory. He’s coming in the glory of His Father with His angels. But the point is, this hasn’t taken place yet. Or... on the other hand... did it already happen? Did Jesus in fact come in the clouds of glory in 70 AD to execute wrath on the ungodly? What were the signs that they saw in the heavens? |
You are correct. That very reference in Acts 1 came to my mind also. And I actually do believe that He will return physically in clouds, due to that reference. But that is the rapture. However, does that discount the thought that Jesus used a metaphor and biblical idiom in Matthew 24? Nobody has addressed this yet, but the stronger point, by far, than this is the ALL of Matthew 24:34. Jesus insisted that everything He spoke about since 24:1 would occur in the generation we are concerned with in verse 34. That includes the temple destruction.
With that in mind, seeing far more weight towards 70 AD being the issue of verse 30, and the associated reference of idioms and metaphors from the Old Testament concerning clouds, I am still pulled towards 70 AD fulfillment of this chapter.
In other words, verse 30 seems to be speaking metaphorically, rather than literally. And Acts 1 would be literal since they were literal clouds and a literal body in them. Maybe like Tom noted, there is meat in all the opinions that will clarify things when looked altogether.
The whole picture has got to fit, obviously, in any given interpretation. I think all forms of interpretation and rapture theory struggle with some points. But the fact that verse 30 is associated with clouds, and Jesus already used metaphors and idioms from the Old testament in the very same discussion, still pushes me towards Kingdom Eschatology.
Good point, though!