|
JOEL’S PROPHECY ABOUT PLEADING WITH ALL NATIONS
Bro. Chalfant quotes Joel’s prophecy and says, “Notice that God, in that day, will ‘plead with them (all nations) there for my people, for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations’. It is not the apostolic church that was ‘scattered among the nations’,” Chalfant says, “God is not going to “plead with them” (the nations) for His people the Jews in 70 AD. That would be impossible since history shows He did not. Any “pleading” with the Jews (not the nations) in 70 AD would have come before the worldwide dispersion by the Romans” At this juncture, we get into some heavy sections of prophecy. First of all we must notice the language used in this chapter. This is indeed a judgment of the nations. And Joel speaks in verse 14 of the sun and the moon affected, as in other references that speak of this in figurative tones to denote the downfall of kingdoms. We must work from obvious interpretations of certain aspects in order to clarify the thoughts of the unclear verses that are hard to be understood. Notice that Joel 3:18 mentions a fountain. Joel 3:18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim. This is also noted in Zechariah: Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. Is not Christ the fountain of living waters? Futurists agree this is Christ, but will contend it is yet future. However, Christ told the woman at the well that He would give her a well of water springing up into everlasting life. It would be inside her! Christ is that fountain and that well! The Holy Ghost is Christ in you! I have that well in me right now! If you are Spirit filled, then so do you! Revelation 22 speaks of a river of living water flowing form the city, and then appeal to the thirsty souls to come right now and drink! So this well and fountain certainly applies to the day of the church. Zechariah notes “in that day,” indicating this is during the church age. Futurists deny that, but let us read. Let us go back to the writing about that day in chapter 12, that 13:1 notes. A specific day is referred to again and again. Zechariah 12:3-4 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. (4) In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness. Zechariah 12:6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem. Zechariah 12:8-9 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. (9) And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. Now read what else Zechariah says. Zechariah 12:10-13:1 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (11) In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. (12) And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart; (13) The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart; (14) All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart. (13:1) In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. All of this is IN THAT DAY, or ON THAT DAY. Keep reading with this in mind. Zechariah 13:2-4 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land. (3) And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth. (4) And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive: Zechariah 14:6-9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: (7) But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. (8) And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. (9) And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. Living waters are referring to Jesus. He is the living waters of the Holy Ghost! Recall His words to the woman at the well. John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. And Jesus spoke the same thought in John 7. John 7:37-39 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. (38) He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (39) (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) So what did Joel say about the waters? Joel 3:18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim. The new wine is the Holy Ghost and Jesus, too! So all these references can aptly apply to Jesus Christ in the church age! Since Christ is a fountain and is water of life and new wine, we read these verses which tell us this is spiritually speaking of people receiving Jesus. Isaiah 35:7 And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes. So when Joel says Egypt shall be a desolation, we consider this spiritual picture of lacking water of life! Joel 3:19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land. This is the same idea in Zechariah. Zechariah 14:17-21 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. (18) And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. (19) This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. (20) In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar. (21) Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts. You have no latter rain and no living water and no new wine if you reject Jesus. Isaiah 65:13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed: Joel 3:10 notes the beating of plowshares into swords. The opposite is noted in Isaiah 2:4 where swords are beaten into plowshares. These are speaking of God’s people preaching the Gospel. 2 Cor 2:16 says the preached Gospel is the savour of life unto life to the people who receive it, while the same gospel is the savour of death unto death to those who reject it. One is worse off after hearing the Gospel and not obeying it, than having never heard it beforehand. People who rebel against the gospel will be cut by it’s sword-like qualities. Those who accept it as preached by the church will produce fruit in their lives. So the sword of God’s mouth, in the preaching of the Gospel, slays all nations who disobey and reject it. God attacks His enemies of the world who reject the Gospel. Notice that Zechariah 14 speaks of God leading nations against Jerusalem, and then in the same chapter we read that God fights against the very nations he led against Jerusalem. Sounds strange, does it not? But consider this. Romans 11 speaks of the remnant or elect of Israel who turned to Jesus. Paul was one of them! But there is the rest of Israel. So Israel is spoken of in a split sense. Some are blessed and some are judged. That is what we said about the Gospel being a sword to some and yet a plowshare to others. It depends upon whether or not a Jew is one of the remnant who accepted Christ. In Matthew 24, the Jews are destroyed in Jerusalem and the elect are gathered and spared! But God has been known to bring enemy nations against His own people in judgment of His people, and then to turn around and judge those nations for it. Isaiah 10:5-6 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation. (6) I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets. Isaiah 10:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed his whole work upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I will punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks. But referring back to the original point, God caused Israel to be dispersed in 70 AD. And God refers to this and then pleads to the nations who took them. And the mention of the valley of Jehoshaphat in Joel 3:2 is of a valley that does not exist anywhere in the Middle East. It is therefore a symbolic place. If part of it is literal, then it all must be literal due to consistency. And there is not a literal valley of Jehoshaphat. Jehoshaphat literally means Jehovah hath judged. This is the idea. It’s simply a place of Judgment. God does not gather them to the nation of Israel. Bro. Chalfant correctly says, “Moreover, this word ‘plead’ is the Hebrew word shaphat, which means ‘to judge’,” which is the reason we read about this occurring in the valley of Jehoshaphat. Shaphat is part of the name Jehoshaphat. Bro. Chalfant should agree, then, that this valley is symbolic. But he claims later that this is the Valley of Esdraelon. However, why does he assume that? There is not physical place called Armageddon, for Armageddon derives from two Greek words meaning “hill of Megiddo.” There is no such place! Yet Bro. Chalfant says the HILL OF MEGIDDO is in the VALLEY OF ESDRAELON! What a contradiction! Our brother merely looked at a traditional thought of which physical plain might hold such a physical battle. But God’s pleading is involved in not only judging Israel and the nations which He brought to come down upon Israel in 70 AD, but appealing to all nations to accept the Gospel. And those who refuse will taste the cutting edge of the sword of His word in the Gospel. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. But he that believeth not shall be damned. Joel 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land. The entire event of judgment surrounded the Gospel rejection by the Jews. That is why Israel was judged. And God appeals to the nations as well to be saved by the Gospel. SYMBOLIC INTERPRETIVE METHOD BROUGHT ABOUT
THE TRINITY DOCTRINE?
Bro. Chalfant next speaks of symbolic interpretive methods partial preterists use, and accuses this methodology as being responsible for the origin of the Trinity doctrine. By saying this, Bro. Chalfant is implying such interpretive methods should therefore never be utilized. But his error is in his words, “Using this fanciful method of interpretation, prophecy can mean almost anything anyone wants it to mean. Any careful student of the Bible will realize that this type of interpretative method is the exception rather than the rule in biblical prophecy.” The fact remains that the uses of imagery that we propose in the sun, moon and stars, Chalfant’s “Rosetta Stone” elements, were clearly shown to be figurative in other Old Testament references. Is repeating the same use of the same pictures an act of fanciful methods of interpretation? We are extremely careful about what is symbolic, basing every instance on something that is clearly used elsewhere in the Bible as symbolism. We dare not concoct anything we want to. Chalfant notes that Jesus literally and physically arose in to a cloud in Acts 1, and was there said to likewise return. We agree! And he then proceeds to mock the notion of Christ’s coming in clouds cannot, therefore, refer to imagery of an invisible coming. But however much our brother chooses to disregard the notion that a coming in clouds is not figurative speech, the Bible clearly shows us that it is! Yes, Jesus will literally return in clouds as He literally left. But that will be for the church in the great resurrection yet to come. However, instances of God’s coming in judgment, alone, involve clear figurative speech of Him coming in clouds of darkness, as well! David described the time he cried to God when in trouble from his persecutors. In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried to my God: and he did hear my voice out of his temple, and my cry did enter into his ears. (2Sa 22:7) And look at God's response: Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth. There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it. He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet. And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind. And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies. Through the brightness before him were coals of fire kindled. The LORD thundered from heaven, and the most High uttered his voice. (2Sa 22:8-14) God came in judgment against his enemies! David said God came with darkness beneath His feet and thick clouds of the skies were like pavilions or tabernacles around Him. And He rode upon a cherub. Did David physically see these things? Of course not! But David was inspired of God to describe God's judgment on his persecutors as a coming in clouds. This was a well-known picture of God in the minds of Old Testament adherents. In fact, the high priest knew very well that Jesus was saying he was God when He informed the priest that the man would see Christ come in clouds! He knew Jesus was telling him that Christ was correct and was Son of God, and would come in judgment to destroy Jerusalem in his day! Jesus did not use speech that the High Priest was unfamiliar with! He did not speak of a truth exclusively understood by the church to be a time of resurrection 2000 years later. He spoke very familiar words to the High Priest, and the High Priest knew exactly what Jesus was insinuating. And for that reason, the Priest cried, "Blasphemy!" Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy. (Mat 26:64-65) The High Priest recalled these very scriptures I am citing in support of the understanding that coming in clouds referred to God coming in judgment. Jesus was saying He was the God of the Old Testament who came in judgment! Jesus not only informed the man that He was God, but also that Jerusalem would be judged just as she was judged in Old testament times, and that using heathen armies. The Bible says that God's presence in clouds implies righteousness and judgment. Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne. (Psalm 97:2) Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled. O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness , that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee? (Jeremiah 4:13-14) The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. (Nah 1:3) That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung. (Zephaniah 1:15-17) This is repeated again and again. And everyone who heard Jesus understood those words as reminiscent of the above references , indicating a coming of God in judgment, including the High Priest! So the Priest cried "Blasphemy" upon hearing that. He did not scratch his head and wonder what on earth Jesus was talking about, which would have been the case had Jesus referred to a coming resurrection of the church 2,000 years afterwards. But Jesus said the High Priest would see this. Did anyone physically see Jesus coming in clouds? No. But the destruction of Jerusalem in 67-70 A.D. they did see. And that is what Jesus meant by people seeing Him come in clouds. He meant they would see His judgment. His destruction. Coming in clouds was simply synonymous with destruction and wrath of God, therefore they would see the destruction. The angel who told the disciples in Acts 1 that Jesus would return visibly in clouds as they saw Him left, was not referring to Matthew 24:31's reference to Jesus coming in clouds. They physically saw Jesus depart from them in a physical cloud. And this will be the way it is when He returns in our future in the resurrection. The judgment in 70 AD was not including a resurrection of anyone. It was only judgment. Partial Preterism, as I see it, teaches that Jesus will come again in the resurrection. 1 Corinthians 15 refers to this next coming. This coming is not in judgment with wrath falling all over the world. It is a coming in resurrection power. And Jesus will be seen in clouds, since He abides in this glory. We see Him described as a mighty angel in Revelation 10, clothed with a cloud. Seeing Him in clouds in Matthew 24 is seeing His judgment. However, when He comes in the resurrection for the church, we will physically see Him in clouds. Then Chalfant refers to Zechariah 14 where “The Lord's feet shall actually stand 'in that day' upon the mount of Olives (Zechariah 14.4), following His return to earth at Armageddon. This could not possibly have happened in the first century.” If Zechariah’s words are to be taken this literally, then we must take all his words literally. Zechariah 14:4-8 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. (5) And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. (6) And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: (7) But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. (8) And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. The river of living waters must be literal. Now, we have already established that the rivers of living water refer to the Holy Ghost in the church age! Jesus referred to that in John 4 and John 7. Does Bro. Chalfant actually believe this river of living water is not the Holy Ghost? He must! No, this is figurative speech as well. The Mount of Olives is not going to physically split from the east to the west. This is speaking of the Holy Ghost flowing out to all nations in the world. Revelation 22 says we can come right now and drink of the waters of life freely! Saying all of this is future, due to the theory that it is physical and literal, and no such historical event physically occurred is a convenient scapegoat! Anyone can say anything is not fulfilled yet, although it spiritually was fulfilled, if they are incorrect in their interpretation. All they have to argue is that it simply has not yet come to pass! And how can you convince them otherwise? If the reality of the picture was that these things were spiritually fulfilled, someone who is convinced they must be physically fulfilled can always resort to saying “It just has not happened yet,” no matter how far ahead in the future one is allowed live. It reminds me of the Jews who refuse to accept the fact that Messiah has already come. They forever will say, He just has not come yet, until the world ends! If the valley of Esdraelon is indeed the site of a future physical battle, then why, pray tell, does the prophecies mention men on horseback fighting this battle? Some have erroneously concocted the idea that men will revert to horseback due to the uneven terrain that will prohibit tanks and trucks from traveling in it. Let’s be real. Warfare allows for more than tanks and truck… and horseback in today’s world! There are guided missiles and aircraft! “There can be little doubt that these endtime prophecies refer to more than just the first century destruction of the city of Jerusalem.” Little doubt? I am sure you will think differently after reading my points, dear reader. Chalfant then states “It is evident that, at least in the apostle Peter’s mind, the ‘last days’ encompassed not only the events of the outpouring of the Holy Ghost in Jerusalem, but included the final battle of Armageddon and the actual return of the Lord to Jerusalem, which still have not occurred some 2000 years later.” He refers, of course, to Acts 2’s citation of Joel’s prophecy . Peter interpreted Joel’s prophecy as referring to the day of Pentecost and the destruction upon Jerusalem using the same figurative speech that Old Testament prophecies used concerning the judgment upon kingdoms. That downfall of Jerusalem, and the destruction that ensued was the battle of Armageddon! And Peter used the same terms Jesus used in His proposed judgments upon Jerusalem. "Save yourselves from this untwoard generation." The "Promise unto you and your children." How many times did Jesus refer to the people of Jeruslaem as "this generation", and as them and their children? In fact, the Jews themselves called for His blood to be upon them and their children! Peter simply showed the very same people of Jerusalem that God could still give His best to the worst! How can “last days” refer to the beginning of the church age and the end of the church age, separated by thousands of years? In critiquing Bro. Larry Smith’s book about the last days and the coming of the Lord, Bro. Chalfant ignored the words of Bro. Smith’s book. He says, “But the Mosaic covenant ended on that day that the veil of the Temple was rent from top to bottom as the Savior died on Calvary. It did not end later in 70 AD.” Bro. Smith wrote that the cross ended Law. And although the cross ended Mosaic Law, the actual practice of animal sacrifices and temple ritual carried on until 70 AD when the temple and city was destroyed. Nobody said that Law did not end until 70 AD. The forty year period between Calvary and 70 AD was a mopping up time of removing all activity that the cross had rendered vain and useless, until not even the activity of temple ritual under Mosaic law could continue. Chalfant then cites Isaiah 34:1-4 to note the sixth seal’s accounts of the celestial bodies once again. And on his literalistic interpretation, demands that the events have not yet been fulfilled. We already dealt with this issue in detail earlier on in this response. LUKE’S PROPHECIES DIFFER IN INTERPRETATION
FROM MATTHEW AND MARK?
Chalfant then notes, “In Luke 21.20-24, Jesus is speaking obviously of the 66-70 AD assault upon Jerusalem by the Roman armies in the first century, whereas, in Matthew 24 and in Mark 13, He is speaking of a future tribulation which will come upon the Jews (and which some believe will come upon the church).” This is patently wrong. The accounts all refer to the same prophesied events. But futurists must propose this sort of inconsistency in the synoptic Gospels because, as Bro. Chalfant said himself, Luke clearly and obviously is speaking about 67-70 AD. And if Matthew and Mark’s accounts also are speaking about 67-70 AD, then the entire futurist interpretation is proven wrong. Let me note that Luke and Matthew both spoke of the same sign. And the wonderful thing about the synoptic Gospels is that they clarify hard to be understood passages by each offering different wording concerning the same events! And Bro. Chalfant is actually destroying that very aid in the synoptic Gospels! For instance, we read of the following in Matthew 24. Mat 24:2-3 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (3) And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And this is clarified for us in Luke 21. Luke 21:6-7 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (7) And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass? It’s the same conversation! Matthew records the same thought as Luke did, using different words. The manner in which we understand what the sign of the coming of the Lord in Matthew 24:3 is, is by realizing that same sign is noted in Luke as the sign when these things shall come to pass. What things? The stones of the temple being overthrown! Bro. Chalfant removes all such clarifying use of the synoptic Gospels and insists the Lord was speaking of an entirely different event in Matthew than he was in Luke! He said, “Jesus does not call the ‘great tribulation’ thlipsis, as He does in the Matthew 24 and Mark 13 descriptions, but rather He calls it ‘distress’ (anangke), an entirely different word.” Does this demand they be speaking of two different events? Of course not! That is the entire point of the synoptic Gospels! They say the same thing in different words. Simply because one Gospel account says the inscription over Jesus head on the cross was worded differently than the account in another Gospel, does not mean the two accounts actually refer to two different crucifixions! Mar 15:26 And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS. Luke 23:38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS. Mat 27:37 And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS. John 19:19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS. Should Bro. Chalfant be consistent, he must agree that the above instances reveal four different and distinct crucifixions because the words are different! He writes, “only in Luke 21 does Jesus inform us that this must be a first century event (which has already been recorded in history). He says that the Jews will ‘be led away captive into all nations’ (vs. 24). This is the worldwide dispersion promoted under the Romans, and is historically verified.” Luke is actually clarifying for us what Matthew 24 and Mark 13 are saying to us! Then our Brother makes another grand leap of assumption and writes, “In this Luke 21 prophecy, Jesus also tells us that the city of Jerusalem ‘shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled’ (Luke 21.24). This is not speaking of the ‘fullness of the Gentiles’, as in Roman 11, which describes the future time when the full number of Gentiles will be placed in the body of Christ, the New Testament church. This is rather speaking of the ‘reign’ of the Gentile system of empires over the nation of Israel. Jesus places this domination of the Gentiles in opposition to the downfall of Jerusalem.” Where does the Bible explicitly teach that the fullness of the gentiles is speaking about the church age when the full number of gentiles will come into the church? This is a dispensationalistic tradition that is unfounded in scripture. The epistles clearly state that the church is neither Jew nor Gentile. God broke down the middle wall of partition in separating Jews from Gentiles, and opened the church up to all nations. The idea of a period of time solely restricted to Gentiles, with the occasional Jewish conversion, is a myth that detracts from the openness of the Church to all nations. But it is a necessary myth to the teacher who proposes that God will return to dealing with natural Israel again in a future period after the church is removed from this world. But it flies in the face of everything the New Testament teaches about what comprises the church. The church is not a “Gentile church.” The times of the gentiles speak of gentile dominion over the Israelites, which would end once Jerusalem is destroyed. But Bro. Chalfant falls back on his preconceived notion that the feet of Daniel’s image represents a distinct world power other than that which the legs represent in speaking of Rome. Daniel, however, gives no such interpretation. Chalfant then notes there is “No Reference To The Abomination Of Desolation In Luke 21” as if this proves a difference in interpretation of events listed in the Gospels, in the same conversation accounted in each! But in actuality, Luke is again clarifying for us what is actually to occur when the abomination of desolation occurs! Mat 24:15-16 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) (16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Luke 21:20-21 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. (21) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. They are obviously renditions of the same conversation and thoughts! Rather than propose the ridiculous thought that Matthew’s reason for Jews to flee to the mountains is a different reason than Luke’s account of why Jews should flee, we should properly understand that both accounts are giving us the same thought. Luke is clarifying for us what causes the abomination of desolation in Matthew’s account. Jerusalem is surrounded by Roman armies! Rome’s idols were held aloft on standards, which were placed in the temple when it was taken. Are we to actually think God intended us to believe that during the same conversation recorded in Luke and Matthew, that Luke was inspired to record words that applied to events thousands of years in the future, repeating the same thought of Jews fleeing Jerusalem? And are we to assume that Matthew recorded a totally different set of events, also involving Jews fleeing to the mountains, that would take place, instead, in the next 40 years? Surely it is plain to see that futuristic grasping for straws is evident in this case more than any others ever dealt with! Chalfant then cites Daniel 11 and demands that it refer to someone other than Herod the Great(!), -- to a mythical future antichrist. “In Daniel 11, the ruler who places the ‘Abomination of Desolation’ in the holy place is a ‘vile person’, he ‘will do according to his will’, ‘he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god’, he ‘shall speak marvelous things against the God of gods’, and he ‘shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished’.” It would take much time to research how Herod the Great fulfills this prophecy. But consider that tidings from the east that trouble him were the wise men from the east who came concerning Jesus Christ’s birth. Matthew 2:1-3 even uses the same terms of the east and troubling words to Herod. Herod went with the great fury of Dan. 11:44 to destroy all children in fear of a king taking his throne. Herod died and none could help him. He continued in wickedness until the day of his death, stricken with a terrible disease. And then, simply due to similarity of words based upon preconcieved thoughts of prophecies being future, he writes, “Paul says that he is a ‘man of sin’, who ‘opposes and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped’, and he ‘as God sitteth in the temple of god, showing himself that he is God’ (2 Thessalonians 2.4).” Bro. Chalfant assumes similarity of words means identicality of events. Yet he refuses to say that about the reasons Jesus gives for the Jews to flee in from Jerusalem in Matthew and Luke’s accounts. What is more reasonable? To say Matthew and Luke wrote about the same events that Luke clearly shows to be 67-70 AD, or that a vague figure in Daniel 11 is the same figure in 2 Thessalonians 2, just because there is the thought of blasphemy and calling oneself god? I am sure you would agree that the Luke and Matthew accounts are far more “water-tight” in speaking of the same event in contrast to the references to figures in Daniel 11 and 2 Thess 2 who portray the same trait that many, many antichrists have proposed throughout the Bible. The two incidents in Daniel and Thessalonians actually refer to two different people. In fact, Chalfant uses the common futurist term of “antichrist” in referring to a sole mythical individual who is supposedly yet to come to this world. Contrariwise, John’s epistles, the only books in the Bible to coin the term “antichrist”, tell us that it is a spirit that denies that Christ has come in the flesh. It’s not a single person! In fact, John said he knew he was in the last "time" (singular) due to many antichrists being present. What does Bro. Chalfant say about the singular tense of the phrase “last time,” when he has used the plural term to distinguish the thought that the early church was part of the last days? 1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. Then our brother invents an imaginary “break” between two verses, since futurism and literal interpretation demands he do so. Here are those verses: Luke 21:24-25 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (25) And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Since the text says there is no break, he assumes there yet must be one, because he already has refused to agree that the reference to the sun, moon and stars is figurative. However, his own argument substantiates that they are figurative, since he has noted Luke 21 obviously refers to the 67-70 AD troubles upon Jerusalem. Why insert a “break” here? He claims the break is present because this reference to the sun, moon and stars, he says, is in context with Matthew 24 and Mark 13 speaking about the coming of the Lord. However, I showed previously that Matthew’s sign of the coming of the Lord is synonymous with Luke’s sign of the time when the stones of the temple would be thrown down. He then comments, “A cursory reading will deceive someone into missing the differences.” I propose this is blatant error. The differences in words are meant to clarify the true picture for us. Once again, all 3 Gospel accounts record the same conversation! BACK TO DANIEL AGAIN
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. -Daniel 12.1,2 KJV Chalfant contends that this prophecy “connects a general resurrection following in the immediate general time frame of the ‘great tribulation’ period.” Chalfant's thoughts are not conclusive. But this is the section of scripture that is indeed difficult to follow. First of all, Daniel is referring to the 67-70 AD time of tribulation upon Jerusalem. This tribulation is noted in Matthew as a time such as never was nor ever shall be. It is when Luke said the sign of the time when the stones of the temple would be thrown down, and Matthew noted as the time of the sign of the coming of the Son of man. So it cannot refer to anything other than that ancient tribulation upon Jerusalem. With that in mind, it appears that the text in Daniel reads that the general resurrection will immediately follow that tribulation, as Bro. Chalfant notes. John 5:25 notes, however, a spiritual awakening from the dead upon hearing and believing the Gospel. People are dead in sins. John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. Isaiah mirrors this idea. Isaiah 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined. Matthew directly refers to this as the ministry of Jesus. Mat 4:14-16 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, (15) The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; (16) The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. John 3 notes everlasting life given to believers, and condemnation to unbelievers. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. That very thought is found in Daniel 12, along with Isaiah’s note of SHINING in light. Dan 12:1-3 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (2) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (3) And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. Does this mean there is no future resurrection? Of course not. It’s just that Daniel 12 is not referring to a physical resurrection, as 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4 are. |